Comments on: Cheapskate Haystacks For Contrary Garden Farmers http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/08/26/cheapskate-haystacks-for-contrary-garden-farmers/ Organic Grocery Market, Shop Local, Small Farms, Family Farms Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:01:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jboy http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/08/26/cheapskate-haystacks-for-contrary-garden-farmers/#comment-5652 Jboy Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:06:24 +0000 http://organictobe.org/?p=1256#comment-5652 ......also, you might want to think about salting the bottom of your stack as you start building it. This will keep it from spoiling, or so I was told, when i was a kid I just did what the old people told me. Used to be you could buy granulated salt at the feed store. For a regular size haystack we'd put about a pound in the first yard or so of height. You can do your haystack however you want, but I think it would shed water a little better if the crown on top was a bit steeper. ……also, you might want to think about salting the bottom of your stack as you start building it. This will keep it from spoiling, or so I was told, when i was a kid I just did what the old people told me.

Used to be you could buy granulated salt at the feed store. For a regular size haystack we’d put about a pound in the first yard or so of height.

You can do your haystack however you want, but I think it would shed water a little better if the crown on top was a bit steeper.

]]> By: Jboy http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/08/26/cheapskate-haystacks-for-contrary-garden-farmers/#comment-5651 Jboy Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:20:28 +0000 http://organictobe.org/?p=1256#comment-5651 well, I didn't hear anybody say anything about laying down some scrap lumber ( or brush ) on the ground before you start and piling the hay on top of that. Doing this will keep the hay off the ground and help it dry out better and keep it from leaching water up from the ground. Once hay starts to mildew you have to tear it apart and get that spoilt hay out of the stack before it ruins the rest of it. well, I didn’t hear anybody say anything about laying down some scrap lumber ( or brush ) on the ground before you start and piling the hay on top of that. Doing this will keep the hay off the ground and help it dry out better and keep it from leaching water up from the ground. Once hay starts to mildew you have to tear it apart and get that spoilt hay out of the stack before it ruins the rest of it.

]]> By: Gene Logsdon http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/08/26/cheapskate-haystacks-for-contrary-garden-farmers/#comment-5625 Gene Logsdon Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:07:24 +0000 http://organictobe.org/?p=1256#comment-5625 Ian, to answer a couple of your questions fast. I use a tarp that has holes around the edges. I run pieces of twine or wire through the holes and tie them to the panels around the stack. After winter comes and the stack settles firmly, the tarp is hardly necessary as most of the rain will run off. To raise the panels or woven wire, I do as you suggest. Take the two panels apart, make the diameter a little wider and then raise them up and wire them to steel fence posts put in around the stack snug up against it. If you have a pole in the center of your stack, as you do, I would be very surprised if the stack fell over in the process. It settles very firmly by winter. I want to make a wood rack that will go around the stack for the animals to eat through, but haven't got that done yet. If the wire panels were only wider in mesh, they would work perfectly as is, without raising them up. Another idea I have is to cut out every other horizontal wire to make room to eat through. You say your panels are smaller meshed at the bottom, yes. Turn them upside down. Yes, the sheep waste a little hay. This is not a problem for me since I am always short of mulch for the gardens and that's what I use the waste for. You'll be surprised though, I think. While the animals are eating, it looks like they are wasting more hay than you would like. But eventually, by spring, my sheep clean up the pile a whole lot better than I thought they were doing. Ian, to answer a couple of your questions fast. I use a tarp that has holes around the edges. I run pieces of twine or wire through the holes and tie them to the panels around the stack. After winter comes and the stack settles firmly, the tarp is hardly necessary as most of the rain will run off.
To raise the panels or woven wire, I do as you suggest. Take the two panels apart, make the diameter a little wider and then raise them up and wire them to steel fence posts put in around the stack snug up against it. If you have a pole in the center of your stack, as you do, I would be very surprised if the stack fell over in the process. It settles very firmly by winter. I want to make a wood rack that will go around the stack for the animals to eat through, but haven’t got that done yet. If the wire panels were only wider in mesh, they would work perfectly as is, without raising them up. Another idea I have is to cut out every other horizontal wire to make room to eat through. You say your panels are smaller meshed at the bottom, yes. Turn them upside down.
Yes, the sheep waste a little hay. This is not a problem for me since I am always short of mulch for the gardens and that’s what I use the waste for. You’ll be surprised though, I think. While the animals are eating, it looks like they are wasting more hay than you would like. But eventually, by spring, my sheep clean up the pile a whole lot better than I thought they were doing.

]]> By: Ian in Dundas ON http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/08/26/cheapskate-haystacks-for-contrary-garden-farmers/#comment-5622 Ian in Dundas ON Tue, 08 Sep 2009 04:41:37 +0000 http://organictobe.org/?p=1256#comment-5622 Couple more comments. I did tramp the hay down, as I built the piles, so may have degraded the whole project right there. I missed that point on prior readings of Gene's post. I wonder how to calculate how much hay is actually in the stack? Density is going to vary. Compared to 4ft by 4ft large round bales weighing 600lb or so and a volume of 50 cu ft, my 8ft stack has 10 times the volume and the 10 ft dia stack has 15 times. I wonder how much wastage there will be without a proper feeder. If the stacks are about the same density as round-baled hay, the 8ft stack should be enough to feed my 8 smallish cattle (maybe 5000 lb of animal units)for 5 to 6 weeks. (eating 3% of body weight a day equals 150 lb and the 8ft stack may have 6000 lb of hay stored (tho moisture will be greater than in the roundbale, I'm going to assume about 25%, or in other words, 75% Dry matter in the stack). Am assuming 10% waste to get to the 3%. I wonder how to get the fence lifted up the 2ft or so, to allow cattle to feed under it, since the fence is very tightly packed inside and there is no way to take it apart and ecspand the circumference. Lifting with FEL will just bend the wire ath. Less of a problem with the cattle panel, but still I'm doubtful it will slide up much at all. I could decouple the two panels and wire it back together a little bigger, but big risk of the whole thing coming down. Ian in Dundas ON Couple more comments. I did tramp the hay down, as I built the piles, so may have degraded the whole project right there. I missed that point on prior readings of Gene’s post.
I wonder how to calculate how much hay is actually in the stack? Density is going to vary. Compared to 4ft by 4ft large round bales weighing 600lb or so and a volume of 50 cu ft, my 8ft stack has 10 times the volume and the 10 ft dia stack has 15 times.
I wonder how much wastage there will be without a proper feeder. If the stacks are about the same density as round-baled hay, the 8ft stack should be enough to feed my 8 smallish cattle (maybe 5000 lb of animal units)for 5 to 6 weeks. (eating 3% of body weight a day equals 150 lb and the 8ft stack may have 6000 lb of hay stored (tho moisture will be greater than in the roundbale, I’m going to assume about 25%, or in other words, 75% Dry matter in the stack). Am assuming 10% waste to get to the 3%.

I wonder how to get the fence lifted up the 2ft or so, to allow cattle to feed under it, since the fence is very tightly packed inside and there is no way to take it apart and ecspand the circumference. Lifting with FEL will just bend the wire ath. Less of a problem with the cattle panel, but still I’m doubtful it will slide up much at all. I could decouple the two panels and wire it back together a little bigger, but big risk of the whole thing coming down.

Ian in Dundas ON

]]> By: Ian in Dundas ON http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/08/26/cheapskate-haystacks-for-contrary-garden-farmers/#comment-5621 Ian in Dundas ON Tue, 08 Sep 2009 03:42:32 +0000 http://organictobe.org/?p=1256#comment-5621 Got two stacks completed, thanks to this blessed 7day spell of good weather here in ON. (Pictures on the way to Dave.) I made one stack with woven wire fencing (8 ft dia), one with cattle panels (10 ft dia, so 60%larger), both on skids so the hay is off the ground and both with a center pole 10 ft high, 2 ft in ground. I put drainage tile between the four skids under each stack and in the 8ft stack, three vertical tile lengths positioned on a steel fence post. (they made it harder to move the hay into the enclosure, and I was not successful in keeping the tile vertical. We'll see if it makes a difference to quality of hay. How to assess moisture of hay? I used the salt in a bottle method referenced by Dirk Van Loon in his 1976 book 'The Family Cow', a method devised by a Prof Dexter of Michigan State U (no date). Was not conclusive, and I think the hay (mostly clovers) was too humid for stacking. we'll see much later when the cows get into it. Still don't know what I'll use to cover with. Tarp will probably blow off. They sure look purdy tho! Got two stacks completed, thanks to this blessed 7day spell of good weather here in ON. (Pictures on the way to Dave.) I made one stack with woven wire fencing (8 ft dia), one with cattle panels (10 ft dia, so 60%larger), both on skids so the hay is off the ground and both with a center pole 10 ft high, 2 ft in ground. I put drainage tile between the four skids under each stack and in the 8ft stack, three vertical tile lengths positioned on a steel fence post. (they made it harder to move the hay into the enclosure, and I was not successful in keeping the tile vertical. We’ll see if it makes a difference to quality of hay.
How to assess moisture of hay? I used the salt in a bottle method referenced by Dirk Van Loon in his 1976 book ‘The Family Cow’, a method devised by a Prof Dexter of Michigan State U (no date). Was not conclusive, and I think the hay (mostly clovers) was too humid for stacking. we’ll see much later when the cows get into it.
Still don’t know what I’ll use to cover with. Tarp will probably blow off.
They sure look purdy tho!

]]> By: Dave Smith http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/08/26/cheapskate-haystacks-for-contrary-garden-farmers/#comment-5604 Dave Smith Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:05:27 +0000 http://organictobe.org/?p=1256#comment-5604 Ian: Send me the pictures and I can post them. -Dave mulliganbooks@pacific.net Ian: Send me the pictures and I can post them. -Dave mulliganbooks@pacific.net

]]> By: Ian in Dundas ON http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/08/26/cheapskate-haystacks-for-contrary-garden-farmers/#comment-5603 Ian in Dundas ON Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:22:50 +0000 http://organictobe.org/?p=1256#comment-5603 Im working on the stack concept, cuz it's hard to find a baler for hire, and if I buy one, I'll have to store it inside somewhere, deal with its repairs and such. Gene, you wrote about it in Contrary, All Flesh, and Small Scale Grain I believe. Not all descriptions were the same, some with cattle panels, some with page wire fencing. Here in ON, in 2009, cattle panels cost $60 each, pagewire about $.70 a foot, so right off, $120 vs $22 for the wire. Unless you have it used, lying around somewhere. But is the pagewire as easy to lift up as you describe, a couple of feet up to increase the height of the stack and allow cattle to feed under it? You mention you'd like to ecsperiment with drainage tile to vent the stack and cure the hay better. You also say making hay for a stack needs to be about as dry as hay for baling or putting in the barn. Have you or anyone on this list tried putting skids under the stack to assist in drying? What about running drainage tile over a couple of steel fence posts (to keep them in place) in the middle of the stack? This article mentions a cap you buy something for $18... what sort of contraction was that? If I could post pictures here in this blog I could show y'all what my efforts amount to. Ian in Dundas ON Old 99 Farm Im working on the stack concept, cuz it’s hard to find a baler for hire, and if I buy one, I’ll have to store it inside somewhere, deal with its repairs and such. Gene, you wrote about it in Contrary, All Flesh, and Small Scale Grain I believe. Not all descriptions were the same, some with cattle panels, some with page wire fencing. Here in ON, in 2009, cattle panels cost $60 each, pagewire about $.70 a foot, so right off, $120 vs $22 for the wire. Unless you have it used, lying around somewhere. But is the pagewire as easy to lift up as you describe, a couple of feet up to increase the height of the stack and allow cattle to feed under it?
You mention you’d like to ecsperiment with drainage tile to vent the stack and cure the hay better. You also say making hay for a stack needs to be about as dry as hay for baling or putting in the barn.
Have you or anyone on this list tried putting skids under the stack to assist in drying? What about running drainage tile over a couple of steel fence posts (to keep them in place) in the middle of the stack?
This article mentions a cap you buy something for $18… what sort of contraction was that?
If I could post pictures here in this blog I could show y’all what my efforts amount to.
Ian in Dundas ON
Old 99 Farm

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