Comments on: Yes, I Care For Animals And Then I Eat Them http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/ Organic Grocery Market, Shop Local, Small Farms, Family Farms Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:01:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ri http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-11387 Ri Sat, 06 Nov 2010 07:20:37 +0000 http://organictobe.org/index.php/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-11387 Dear Gene, I'm trying to answer your question about the need of clothes. Question: "how can a person work hard to develop a healthy body with good hygiene, good exercise, good living habits and a good diet, and then hide that beautiful bunch of flesh and bone under clothes?" Answer: Because when YOU develop healthy body with good hygiene, exercise, good living habits, and diet, the results are YOURS to enjoy in the form of your good body posture, more charismatic ambiance, clearer minds, speedier thinking process, happier hearts, and don't forget: low medical bills. All these can become the cause of even more enjoyment in life from your friends who admire you, your boss who like your work performance, etc. OTHERS' enjoyment comes automatically after you enjoy those, and by all means, their enjoyment for your effort is not the main one. So if you don't feel comfortable taking your clothes off, then don't. Mens sana in corpore sano (Latin): A healthy mind in a healthy body. No nudity required. :) Question: "I would have to (or someone would have to) keep cows, goats or sheep for cheese and chickens for eggs. What am I supposed to do with the surplus animal babies, especially the bull calves and rooster chicks?" Answer: There's no need to keep cows, goats, or sheep if there's no demand to eat cheese and eggs. No demand, no supply. Researches have shown that cheese and egg are not compulsory. They're luxury. Btw, don't we let our senior citizens to live and enjoy their old days in peace and die naturally? Why can't we do that to animals? Those are not the only wrong argument I found, but just like Jan, I'm too busy to argue about it. To be honest, I can't believe people actually believe this article. Maybe you should just be honest and say: Yes, I Care For Animals And Then I Eat Them Because I Like Their Taste. Thank you. Dear Gene,

I’m trying to answer your question about the need of clothes.
Question: “how can a person work hard to develop a healthy body with good hygiene, good exercise, good living habits and a good diet, and then hide that beautiful bunch of flesh and bone under clothes?”

Answer: Because when YOU develop healthy body with good hygiene, exercise, good living habits, and diet, the results are YOURS to enjoy in the form of your good body posture, more charismatic ambiance, clearer minds, speedier thinking process, happier hearts, and don’t forget: low medical bills. All these can become the cause of even more enjoyment in life from your friends who admire you, your boss who like your work performance, etc.
OTHERS’ enjoyment comes automatically after you enjoy those, and by all means, their enjoyment for your effort is not the main one. So if you don’t feel comfortable taking your clothes off, then don’t.

Mens sana in corpore sano (Latin): A healthy mind in a healthy body. No nudity required. :)

Question: “I would have to (or someone would have to) keep cows, goats or sheep for cheese and chickens for eggs. What am I supposed to do with the surplus animal babies, especially the bull calves and rooster chicks?”
Answer: There’s no need to keep cows, goats, or sheep if there’s no demand to eat cheese and eggs.
No demand, no supply. Researches have shown that cheese and egg are not compulsory. They’re luxury. Btw, don’t we let our senior citizens to live and enjoy their old days in peace and die naturally? Why can’t we do that to animals?

Those are not the only wrong argument I found, but just like Jan, I’m too busy to argue about it. To be honest, I can’t believe people actually believe this article.

Maybe you should just be honest and say: Yes, I Care For Animals And Then I Eat Them Because I Like Their Taste.

Thank you.

]]> By: neggin http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-4641 neggin Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:57:24 +0000 http://organictobe.org/index.php/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-4641 My every instinct tells me not to get into this one, and not to try to swim in the same water with the smarter people here. I have read the post and the above comments, and will probably have to reread a few times to make sure any future comments I make are relevant and on the smart side. But a few things about the discussion above really bother me. 1.) Why can't people who eat meat seem to resist getting into it with vegans, and vice versa? 2.) The above discussion ended, the way it did, months ago and was not continued. Here's something that doesn't bother me but I would just like to say: The last comment contained "For the subsistence farmer vegetarianism is an unaffordable luxury". In the world, many subsistence farmers, the kind of people who either have to succeed at producing their food OR STARVE, do often rely on plant source foods for a lot of their needs, often for long periods. For these people it's meat and animal products that are a luxury and not the center of their diet. They will often forego slaughtering the family pigs and the family cow. They will barter or sell their livestock and animal products rather than eat them at home when there is economic need to do so. For these people, vegetarianism is not a luxury but the way to get by when a farm animal is to valuable to slaughter or worth more on someone else's table. It's the fortunate among these people who have meat on the table at most times. Here in the states where a family can be subsistence farmers by choice, perhaps vegetarianism - a life without animal products in the diet - could be a luxury and an impractical lifestyle choice. My every instinct tells me not to get into this one, and not to try to swim in the same water with the smarter people here. I have read the post and the above comments, and will probably have to reread a few times to make sure any future comments I make are relevant and on the smart side. But a few things about the discussion above really bother me. 1.) Why can’t people who eat meat seem to resist getting into it with vegans, and vice versa? 2.) The above discussion ended, the way it did, months ago and was not continued.
Here’s something that doesn’t bother me but I would just like to say: The last comment contained “For the subsistence farmer vegetarianism is an unaffordable luxury”. In the world, many subsistence farmers, the kind of people who either have to succeed at producing their food OR STARVE, do often rely on plant source foods for a lot of their needs, often for long periods. For these people it’s meat and animal products that are a luxury and not the center of their diet. They will often forego slaughtering the family pigs and the family cow. They will barter or sell their livestock and animal products rather than eat them at home when there is economic need to do so. For these people, vegetarianism is not a luxury but the way to get by when a farm animal is to valuable to slaughter or worth more on someone else’s table. It’s the fortunate among these people who have meat on the table at most times. Here in the states where a family can be subsistence farmers by choice, perhaps vegetarianism – a life without animal products in the diet – could be a luxury and an impractical lifestyle choice.

]]> By: James http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-1982 James Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:29:14 +0000 http://organictobe.org/index.php/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-1982 On this hot June day, I am looking out over my steep pasture where all and sundry animals are grazing or else finding some shade in the trees. And I mean the pasture is steep! This is the north-eastern most tip of Tennessee and non-steep land is at a premium. It is too steep to plow or dig and were it not animal pasture it would revert to scrub then forest. The chickens wander through the grass picking apart the cow pies and horse apples and eat some of the grass. They then go into the forest and dig up insects and mushrooms. The goats nibble off the goldenrod that grows from the bare shale and eat the nettles that grow among the rocks by the creek. In fact the animals get very little to eat beyond what they can find for themselves. Likewise the rabbits are fed mainly from the yellow dock, lambs quarters, dandelions, and plantain that is weeded out of the gardens and cornfields. The meat we eat (and milk and eggs) comes from resources of which we could make no use whatever if it weren't for keeping animals there. So the argument that a pound of meat robs the human food supply of X pounds of vegetarian fare is not necessarily so. Also the animals fix so much nitrogen that I can grow the rest of our diet on an amazingly small plot of land. For the subsistence farmer vegetarianism is an unafordable luxury. --------------- By the bye, Gene, I know having your own writings quoted to you must be annoying enough, but a blogger reported that at a conference he had mentioned the idea of keeping goats for milk and eating the surplus chevon to which he says you replied, to wit, that everyone plans on that but you'd not known anyone who actually does it. We are the ones who actually do that. We ate four goats this winter and we have six more grazing on the aforementioned pasture with names like Barbeque, To-Be-Tacos, Pot Pie, and Hot Sauce. On this hot June day, I am looking out over my steep pasture where all and sundry animals are grazing or else finding some shade in the trees. And I mean the pasture is steep! This is the north-eastern most tip of Tennessee and non-steep land is at a premium. It is too steep to plow or dig and were it not animal pasture it would revert to scrub then forest.

The chickens wander through the grass picking apart the cow pies and horse apples and eat some of the grass. They then go into the forest and dig up insects and mushrooms. The goats nibble off the goldenrod that grows from the bare shale and eat the nettles that grow among the rocks by the creek.

In fact the animals get very little to eat beyond what they can find for themselves.

Likewise the rabbits are fed mainly from the yellow dock, lambs quarters, dandelions, and plantain that is weeded out of the gardens and cornfields.

The meat we eat (and milk and eggs) comes from resources of which we could make no use whatever if it weren’t for keeping animals there.

So the argument that a pound of meat robs the human food supply of X pounds of vegetarian fare is not necessarily so.

Also the animals fix so much nitrogen that I can grow the rest of our diet on an amazingly small plot of land.

For the subsistence farmer vegetarianism is an unafordable luxury.

—————

By the bye, Gene, I know having your own writings quoted to you must be annoying enough, but a blogger reported that at a conference he had mentioned the idea of keeping goats for milk and eating the surplus chevon to which he says you replied, to wit, that everyone plans on that but you’d not known anyone who actually does it.

We are the ones who actually do that. We ate four goats this winter and we have six more grazing on the aforementioned pasture with names like Barbeque, To-Be-Tacos, Pot Pie, and Hot Sauce.

]]> By: alan http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-1576 alan Fri, 11 Apr 2008 03:48:10 +0000 http://organictobe.org/index.php/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-1576 Tracy, You have to follow your heart! For me, I am the meat I eat. I am the grass that the cow, who's milk I drink, eats. If you live locally, as part of a local community of life, sharing the resources with others living in the community and returning them when you are done then you have no worries. If you do not, then in the long run you are evolutionarly nonviable, and you will be eliminated from the system. The issue for us is that our system falls in the latter category, not the former. Tracy,

You have to follow your heart! For me, I am the meat I eat. I am the grass that the cow, who’s milk I drink, eats. If you live locally, as part of a local community of life, sharing the resources with others living in the community and returning them when you are done then you have no worries. If you do not, then in the long run you are evolutionarly nonviable, and you will be eliminated from the system. The issue for us is that our system falls in the latter category, not the former.

]]> By: Tracey Laszloffy http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-1542 Tracey Laszloffy Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:39:09 +0000 http://organictobe.org/index.php/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-1542 I just want to say that I appreciate this spirited debate. To Alan specifically I want to say that I agree "everything is food for something" which means in a way, no organic matter is ever really "wasted" (despite how my parents used to try and guilt me if I didn't finish all the food on my plate). For me, the most pressing issue is the damage that is caused by HOW we acquire some kinds of food. So sure, vegetarianism that relies on global imports or genetically engeineered produce is highly problematic AND meat derived from agri-business via factory farms is highly problematic, not just for the environmental damage BUT becuase of CRUELTY TO ANIMALS. To Gene I would say that it may be true that science updates its conclusions all the time, but there is a solid body of research that confirms that when compared side to side, vegetarians (and I am not even saying vegans) have LOWER rates of all major illnesses that meat-eaters. Of course, maybe this overall conclusion will somehow be disproven one day, but in the meantine, the science is pretty clear AND more importantly to me, since I do care about animals, if I can live a healthy life without contributing to suffering of animals (cause I am not in a position to raise my own for consumption), then I feel like I have a moral responsibility to do that. I just want to say that I appreciate this spirited debate. To Alan specifically I want to say that I agree “everything is food for something” which means in a way, no organic matter is ever really “wasted” (despite how my parents used to try and guilt me if I didn’t finish all the food on my plate). For me, the most pressing issue is the damage that is caused by HOW we acquire some kinds of food. So sure, vegetarianism that relies on global imports or genetically engeineered produce is highly problematic AND meat derived from agri-business via factory farms is highly problematic, not just for the environmental damage BUT becuase of CRUELTY TO ANIMALS.
To Gene I would say that it may be true that science updates its conclusions all the time, but there is a solid body of research that confirms that when compared side to side, vegetarians (and I am not even saying vegans) have LOWER rates of all major illnesses that meat-eaters. Of course, maybe this overall conclusion will somehow be disproven one day, but in the meantine, the science is pretty clear AND more importantly to me, since I do care about animals, if I can live a healthy life without contributing to suffering of animals (cause I am not in a position to raise my own for consumption), then I feel like I have a moral responsibility to do that.

]]> By: Gene Logsdon http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-1532 Gene Logsdon Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:18:43 +0000 http://organictobe.org/index.php/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-1532 To all the above. Maybe enough said. But somebody has to make one more point and it might as well be me since the vegans are already convinced that I am wrong. I might as well risk be wronger still. What is a right diet and a wrong diet is something not proven one way or another until such a diet has been followed for a fairly long period of time, seems to me. Also, it is certainly true that scientific debate about diet changes regularly, and one generation's holy diet religion becomes the next generation's anathema. As far as I have been able to read and study, the only really long test of veganism has been the Jaines of India, and many nutritionists say their health has deterioriated when their strict diet was maintained over many generations. I also read that vegans cheat a lot. Is that true? They go on occasional "holiday" where they gorge on things like ice cream. True? Even if that is just evil gossip against them, I have to call on history here. Where can I find DOCUMENTED four generations of strict vegans who don't have health problems in the succeeding generations? If you can show me an historical case, and can prove that none of these people have eaten animal food products including worms and grubs, I will gladly accept your argument. I know plenty of very healthy vegetarians and plenty of healthy human ominivores. The difference is that ominvores have been eating animal products for about a zillion centuries or so. Show me a human society that has evolved without eating animal products. So it is legitimate for me to wonder if the current opinion among vegans that their diet is healthful will hold true as more evidence is uncovered. Until then you can't say I'm inaccurate or the nutrionists I quote are inaccurate any more than you can say that critics of the popular cholesterol theory are inaccurate. There are findings, new ones every year now, that the cholesterol theory--- that animal fats cause heart attacks--- is not quite as correct as the AMA thought twenty years ago. Time will tell I suppose. Gene Logsdon To all the above. Maybe enough said. But somebody has to make one more point and it might as well be me since the vegans are already convinced that I am wrong. I might as well risk be wronger still. What is a right diet and a wrong diet is something not proven one way or another until such a diet has been followed for a fairly long period of time, seems to me. Also, it is certainly true that scientific debate about diet changes regularly, and one generation’s holy diet religion becomes the next generation’s anathema. As far as I have been able to read and study, the only really long test of veganism has been the Jaines of India, and many nutritionists say their health has deterioriated when their strict diet was maintained over many generations. I also read that vegans cheat a lot. Is that true? They go on occasional “holiday” where they gorge on things like ice cream. True? Even if that is just evil gossip against them, I have to call on history here. Where can I find DOCUMENTED four generations of strict vegans who don’t have health problems in the succeeding generations? If you can show me an historical case, and can prove that none of these people have eaten animal food products including worms and grubs, I will gladly accept your argument. I know plenty of very healthy vegetarians and plenty of healthy human ominivores. The difference is that ominvores have been eating animal products for about a zillion centuries or so. Show me a human society that has evolved without eating animal products. So it is legitimate for me to wonder if the current opinion among vegans that their diet is healthful will hold true as more evidence is uncovered. Until then you can’t say I’m inaccurate or the nutrionists I quote are inaccurate any more than you can say that critics of the popular cholesterol theory are inaccurate. There are findings, new ones every year now, that the cholesterol theory— that animal fats cause heart attacks— is not quite as correct as the AMA thought twenty years ago. Time will tell I suppose.
Gene Logsdon

]]> By: Alan Roberts http://www.yourlocalmarketblog.com/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-1528 Alan Roberts Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:47:34 +0000 http://organictobe.org/index.php/2008/03/21/yes-i-care-for-animals-and-then-i-eat-them/#comment-1528 Tracy, Maybe there is another way to look at it. Everything is food for something. The issue is whether the resources are returned to the community or washed on down to the sea. (see my earlier comment for more on this.) Vegetarianism, that imports resources from all over the globe to meet its basic needs is no better than carnivorism in the current system. Tracy,

Maybe there is another way to look at it. Everything is food for something. The issue is whether the resources are returned to the community or washed on down to the sea. (see my earlier comment for more on this.) Vegetarianism, that imports resources from all over the globe to meet its basic needs is no better than carnivorism in the current system.

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